And during the investigative board meetings that took place after the tragedy, someone asked her, "How do you get out dissenting opinions?" And she said, "Well, when I hear about them." And they said, "By their very nature, Ms. Ham, you know, you may not hear about them." And she said, "Well, I do when somebody comes forward and tells me about them." And they said, "But what techniques do you use to get these dissenting views out on the table?" And she really didn't have an answer.